No booze from June 1st

2008-05-15T23:26:29Z

Do you think we should therefore have a massive piss-up on the 30/31 May, just to celebrate our last days of human rights on this score?

2008-05-15T23:30:31Z

Are you not on facebook potty? there is to be a party on the circle line.

2008-05-16T06:47:37Z

If you drink enough it will look as if everything’s going round and round.

2008-05-16T07:35:56Z

Yes, and you could all quite legitimately still be arrested. Because it is already an offence to be drunk and incapable in a public place. Which just further highlights just how fuckwitted this cocking ban is. Stupid, blond fuckbudgie.

2008-05-16T07:52:42Z

i’d rather NOT fuck the budgie ta v much

2008-05-16T07:59:10Z

Oh my goddddd no drinking on public transport!! ahhhh the world as we know it is coming to an end!!! They’re infringing our human rights!!

pshh just go to a pub! Not that bloody difficult is it??

maybe you’re too used to drinking tramp cider on public transport though. But hey there’s always park benches and bus shelters to drink in.

2008-05-16T08:12:09Z

Even leaving that aside, there’re, relatively speaking, fuck all assaults on the Tube. And the available statistics don’t even detail how many of those were down to the assailant being drunk, let alone because they were actually drinking on the Tube.

Fuck knows what his next bit of genius legislation will be. No walking your Bengal tiger without a leash?

2008-05-16T08:18:26Z

how about sometimes if you’re female traveling on your own, or just traveling on your own in general, male or femal, and a bunch of rowdy drunk people, or still drinking get on, it can be quite scary. Ever think of that?

Personally I’m looking forward to the ban and hope it’ll make traveling a little more pleasent.

2008-05-16T08:26:18Z

...and a bunch of rowdy drunk people, or still drinking get on, it can be quite scary. Ever think of that?

What’s scary? The rowdy drunk people, or the people still drinking?

Rowdy drunk people can be scary. That’s why we have laws in place.

But if you’re scared of people having a drink on the tube, regardless of whether or not they’re rowdy, then I think you might be a little bit too delicate for public transport. Perhaps you should invest in a driver, or something?

Pubs must be utterly terrifying for you, what with this phobia of open containers of alcohol.

It’s not a big thing, no, but it’s fucking irritating to see these pointless little laws that are going to make no positive difference (apart from for the poor souls who are phobic of open cans of beer).

Stupid, petty salami slicing of freedom, purely to play to the tabloid gallery.Utter tokenism. And just as he’s making an entirely symbolic gesture to the moral majority, it’s the symbolism of it – the petty control freak aspect of it – that’s pissing me off.

2008-05-16T08:36:18Z

Lalalucy, I’m curious.

People who read Bibles on the tube make me nervous. I think that they might start preaching to me or something. Damn Christians. And people who read the Koran, too. An fact, anyone reading holy books. They’re all weirdos, and you never know what they might do.

So where would you stand on banning holy-book-reading on the tube? After all, it’s only a tube journey. If they want to read their holy books, then why can’t they go to a church to do it? What harm can it do, to not be able to read the Bible for half an hour out of their day?

Are you in favour of stupid petty bans to appease people’s sensibilities in all respects, or is it just when it comes to booze that you’ve got this control-freak tendancy?

2008-05-16T08:41:38Z

Reading a bible on a tube and drinking on the tube are completely different things and I can’t believe someone actually linked the two.

2008-05-16T08:49:28Z

Not necessarily. Both, in my opinion, are fairly innocuous activities.

Being drunk is a different matter. But that, as has already been mentioned, is already covered by existing legistlation.

2008-05-16T08:50:49Z

a bunch of rowdy drunk people, or still drinking get on, it can be quite scary. Ever think of that?

Well, let’s think about it now. Yes, it can be quite scary if rowdy drunk people get on the bus or tube. Johnston’s new law won’t stop that, of course. And if they’re still drinking? Leaving aside the sheer infrequency of this ever actually happening, the tube or bus driver will have to leave his cab to confiscate the alcohol or prevent the passengers from boarding – both of which sound extremely unlikely – or he or she will radio for assistance. By the time it ever arrives the drinks will have been consumed, the drunks will have sobered up or the other passengers will have become incensed at yet another delay to their journey and sought an alternative way to complete it. Or, the drunks could turn nasty at having the end to their evening being interfered with.

I’m all for making travelling a little more pleasant, but I can’t see how this legislation will make the tiniest difference.

2008-05-16T08:53:39Z

the 440 more police being drafted specifically to transport will probably asist with that.

2008-05-16T08:56:00Z

the thing that I find amusing is the amount of people complaining that Boris was voted mayor. Where were they on voting day? Why did he get in if everyone’s so against him and the tories?

The city had spoken.

2008-05-16T08:59:36Z

As I said, do you know how many people are actually assaulted on the Tube. Fuck-all, that’s how many. Something like one assault for every half a million passangers. That is tiny.

And this new law is utterly ineffectual, anyway, and, as BNM noted, difficult to police. And how much has been spent on training, posters etc. for it?

2008-05-16T09:04:11Z

The vote thing has been done, Lalalucy. To death. And someone having a can of beer in their hand, in public, does not immediately make them intimidating. Unless you in live in constant fear. Of everything. And everyone.

THE TERRORISTS ARE COMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2008-05-16T09:04:12Z

I don’t think it’s scary and I travel on my own all of the time.

2008-05-16T09:07:41Z

440 police officers stalking the tube looking for beer. Now, that’s scary.

2008-05-16T09:11:17Z

He’s got the wrong target anyway. He should ban eating McDonalds on the tube. Surely it’s far more distressing to the tubefaring public to be assaulted by the sight and smell of someone stuffing greasy burgers into their bloated faces. And that bloke the other day? stabbed on Oxford Street after eating in a McDonalds, can no-one see what is happening here? it’s a menace and society needs to act now!

2008-05-16T09:13:06Z

Reading a bible on a tube and drinking on the tube are completely different things and I can’t believe someone actually linked the two.

Lalalucy – I think you may have slightly missed the point being made here.

Honestly, we are surely all agreeingin general? It’s rowdy, drunk, threatening people on public transport that are the potential problem, not people calmly sipping from a can of beer while reading the paper on the way home, or on their way to a dinner party or whatever.

maybe you’re too used to drinking tramp cider on public transport though

Oh FFS. Stop stereotyping. Having a drink on a tube does not equal being a tramp or being pissed, obnoxious, threatening or whatever. And the latter is already legislated for. Stop being so ridiculous as to assume that is the same as “having a drink”. It may be the outcome of having too many drinks (even if drunk properly and legally in a pub as you’ve suggested, Lalalucy) but they simply are not the same thing.

Having said all that, in all honesty, I don’t really give a shit if drinking booze on public transport is no longer allowed. I think it’s a stupid pointless tokenistic idiotic law to introduce (as already mentioned in a previous thread) but I actually couldn’t care less and really it won’t impact my life in any way. I’m probably more irritated by the silliness being shown on this thread than I am about the law itself.

2008-05-16T09:18:19Z

Thats the thing I love about this place. you say something that other people don’t agree with and everyone jumps down your fucking throat.

Honestly I don’t know why I bother coming on here. To be attacked by a bunch of jumped up twunts. Might just go hang out at the local vet with some rabid cats. Might be a bit less painful and a bit more enjoyable.

2008-05-16T09:19:29Z

middleofnowhere – He should ban eating McDonalds on the tube

According to Metro today, obese people cause world famine. I may be dovetailing a few facts there but my gut instinct tells me I’m right, and when it comes to matters of food and being overweight I go with my gut.

So let’s just label obsese people food terrorists. Then the 440 police will have people to shoot who can barely run and present a sizeable target, plus, you know, less fat people.

Edit: Oh crap I just read Fi’s post. mumbles apologies for continuous silliness

2008-05-16T09:26:48Z

Lalalucy, it’s not jumping down your throat. It’s typical KCL debate. You should know that by now. As far as I can see no one has called you names, but you feel free to call anyone who disagrees with you a jumped-up twunt, whatever that is.

Do you think it’s conceivable that they have a point and that you, er, don’t?

2008-05-16T09:30:41Z

No because I don’t think there’s any point in making nurmerous threads complaining that you can’t have a drink on public transport from June 1st. It’s just daft.

2008-05-16T09:32:58Z

chews small dog

The slicing of freedom is the occupation of your ancestral lands in Palestine, the creation of walls to prevent freedom of movement in Israel and Germany, the house arrest of democratically elected leaders in Myanmar. It is the removal of the right to protest where you want, when you want. It is the discrimination against homosexuals in Iran, against skin colour in the Amercian South, against organised labour in Latin America, against political dissenters in the old Soviet Union and Zimbabwe or against different religious groups in Northern Ireland and Pakistan. It is the enslavement of around 15 million people from Africa and their time spent as chattels in the United States, it is the forcible rape of thousands of Filipino and Chinese women by the Japanese in military brothels during WWII, the destruction of villages and their populations in Darfur, the use of children in sex tourism in Madagascar and Cambodia, withholding the vote from sections of the population in Saudi Arabia, forced female circumcision in sub-saharan African, forced migration of people from their tribal lands in Brazil and Indonesia by mining companies and loggers; it is the removal of the entire population from Diego Garcia to allow it to become a military airbase, sexual abuse, forced marriages, the use of traumatised child soldiers by the Lord’s Resistance Army, experiments on jewish prisoners by Klaus Barbie, the arbitary purging of over 20 million people by Stalin, the occupation of the Western Sahara, the colonisation of Tibet, the expulsion of the asian population from Uganda by Idi Amin, the imprisonment of people without charge in Guantanamo…..

It may also be about not being allowed to drink for 5 minutes while travelling on a tube. I suspect, however, that you – and now I – need to regain some perspective.

ends lecture and looks at self in disgust for succumbing to internet rantiness

logs off for several years

2008-05-16T09:36:37Z

I’d like to ban the eating of bananas anywhere on the tube network – stations or trains.

When my train stopped at Clapham Common (or possibly North, they’re very similar), the guy who got on by where I was standing took the last bite of his banana and boarded the carriage, and casually tossed the skin onto the platform as the doors closed.

Just think of the potential danger of other passengers stepping on the skin and skidding, arms windmilling into the path of an oncoming train. Obviously i tsked, rolled my eyes and went back to my book.

Bananas are EVIL and UNSAFE. Ban them.

2008-05-16T09:37:10Z

But, Lalalucy, you don’t construct an argument very well, do you?

And twunt is a rubbish word. Just call us all cunts. We like it.

2008-05-16T09:38:27Z

iSD makes an excellent point about bananas, mind.

2008-05-16T09:38:31Z

lalalucy, I’ve activated the part-timer equivalent of the Bat Signal* and he’ll be along shortly to help you defend Bojo’s ridiculous, tokenistic ban.

*It’s not so much a bat that is projected as it is as giant, twitching schlong.

2008-05-16T09:40:23Z

*Hands Lalalucy some valium

There, there. Calm down, dear.

2008-05-16T09:40:41Z

I love that the fact that Boris got in is winding everyone up so much. I love it even more because I voted for him. Stick that in yer pipe. laughs an evil tory laugh

I know this will probably make you all dislike me even more but I’m beyond caring.

2008-05-16T09:46:46Z

It’s not so much the fact that he’s a Tory, lalalucy, (indeed, I was, and still am, prepared to judge him on his actions, not his political affiliations) so much that one of his first courses of action is to institute an utterly fucking stupid ban.

And an utterly fucking stupid, tokenistic tree-planting scheme.

2008-05-16T09:51:33Z

Now I’m as liberal as a Swedish porn producer and I like a beer so this really should upset me. But it doesn’t. As someone previously said, it’s a gesture, which will be extremely difficult to enforce and can’t even become law for another year or so. And even then, I can’t have a drink on my way to work in the morning? Boo hoo…that’s what the library is for.

Where were you people when Ken was banning feeding the pigeons eh? Eh?

2008-05-16T09:56:21Z

Thank you Carla. I might start a facebook group or something.

I think we should lobby Boris to ban stupid, ignorant, selfish people from the tube. Then no one would have anything to complain about. Right?

2008-05-16T09:57:01Z

Fucking pigeons.

2008-05-16T10:55:52Z

I was reading this thread wondering how quickly people had forgotten some of Kens idiotic ideas, so thanks for reminding us of the pidgeons Juvey.

2008-05-16T11:07:27Z

If I were mayor I’d make sure there were FREE PIGEONS FOR EVERYONE.

2008-05-16T11:09:29Z

Hello!

Lalalucy is wrong. Everyone else is right. I’m deeply disappointed by Bojo for choosing this as his big symbolic first policy.

My work here is done.

2008-05-16T11:16:32Z

checks date, earth’s orbit, state of wakefulness etc

2008-05-16T11:17:47Z

As an aside, if I’m not alowed to drink on the tube, can I snort huge lines of ketamin instead?

2008-05-16T11:19:54Z

I’ve never consumed alcohol on public transport I don’t think, well not that I can remember in any case. So I’m thinking I don’t really give a shit about the ban.

2008-05-16T11:21:51Z

hooray

2008-05-16T11:31:06Z

Too right, I thought it was very important for everyone to know I didn’t give a shit either way.

2008-05-16T11:32:15Z

As long as it’s not intimidating to other passengers, Babb

2008-05-16T11:47:10Z

I make no promises, ISD.

2008-05-16T12:05:18Z

I’m all for the ban. I know it will be hard to enforce and people will call it pointless and “Tolkenistic” (Seriously come up with a better word, its been used 4 times in this thread alone) but if it means I can get on the top deck of a bus without it smelling like K and stella then I’m happy. So there. Drink your can at the bus stop or on the way to the bus if your that concerned that you cant get a drink in before arriving at the pub!

2008-05-16T12:08:46Z

“Tolkenistic” ? does that make Boris a hobbit?

2008-05-16T12:08:46Z

everyone jumps down your fucking throat.

I don’t think there’s much of that. Disagreeing with you and explaining why is certainly happening. Pointing out where you’re missing a point is happening. Debating a topic with a series of differing opinons is happening. If you think that’s “jumping down your fucking throat” then I am also wondering why on earth you bother coming on here?

Honestly I don’t know why I bother coming on here. To be attacked by …

Who on earth is attacking you? We’re simply disagreeing with you – and explaining why. While pointing out the flaws and lack of logic in the position you’ve stated. It’s often called conversation and someones debate. If that’s an “attack” in your world though I’m not surprised you feel fear when you see a person with a can of lager on a train.

jumped up twunts

Gosh, that adds intelligence and weight to your already deeply logical thought processes. Well done you.

2008-05-16T12:08:48Z

What a bollocks law. I used to enjoy having a can of lager on the tube of a friday night on my way to visit friends. I’d also get a kick out of scaring sensitive girls with my sensual public drinking habits. What’s perhaps more disturbing than drinking a can of lager in public is the fact that it costs almost 2 hours of work (under the minimum wage) to get a peak time travel card for zones 1 – 6. In terms of rubbish, time wasting laws this is up there with the fox hunting ban. Sort out the things that count, not the things that didn’t need sorting in the first place.

2008-05-16T12:10:35Z

Tolkeinistic? Hobbit-tastic!

And with Babbilicious feet too.

2008-05-16T12:24:49Z

If you’re all so against Boris then where were you on voting day? Down the pub no less?

2008-05-16T12:28:12Z

I voted for Ken on voting day. His anti-banana stance won my vote.

Why do you think that because we’re against Boz’s policy it means we didn’t vote?

2008-05-16T12:29:34Z

I was voting for Red Ken. I would’ve voted for Derek Hatton but he wasn’t available. I don’t think this is anti Boris per se, more anti a really pointless little law.

2008-05-16T12:38:49Z

Down the pub no less?

I don’t understand the point of this, LittleEmily.

2008-05-16T12:41:17Z

Ah fuckit. I cant be arsed arguing with all the “witty” people. You’re all much too smart for me. I’m going back to school to re-take me GCSEs.

2008-05-16T12:43:13Z

I would have voted for Boris, if I’d had a vote, though frankly I would have voted for anyone rather than Ken. But that doesn’t mean I have to support this disappointingly illiberal policy. And I don’t drink on the tube either, MonkeyBoy, but that doesn;t mean I have no concern for the general principle that we should all be allowed to do what we want to do unless there is a good reason why we shouldn’t. It’s that sort of thinking that got hunting banned.

2008-05-16T12:43:17Z

I’m not trying to be witty. I genuinely don’t understand your point.

2008-05-16T12:43:29Z

You’re not really “arguing” though, are you?

2008-05-16T13:10:38Z

At least boris is making an active attempt at tackling yobbish behavior and not just lining his pockets by jacking up the congestion charge and tube fare like red ken did. What did ken do? give them all free travel.

2008-05-16T13:13:42Z

(hem)

Look, I don’t mean to intrude here, as pretty much everything’s been said already. However, lalalucy is getting it in the neck a bit. I’m sure many people like lalalucy don’t like to see other people drinking on the tube. This may be a revelation for some posters here – many people may not be like you.

My personal view is that it’s not really for anyone to judge and it is ridiculous to be offended by an open can, but (here’s the kicker) some people are. So I still wouldn’t drink on the tube, because I wouldn’t want to offend them unnecessarily in any way even if I think they are wrong to be offended.

Everyone should have the right to do things they need to do to live happily. That’s why, to pick one example, even though some are offended by gay couples displaying public affection, I would absolutely defend their right to do so. It matters. But we shouldn’t do things that offend other people unless there’s a bloody good reason for doing so. Having a tube drink, playing rubbish music out of a phone, holding the doors open on a tube, these all fall under the ‘unnecessary’ heading. UncleGeorge did this bit of the argument much better than me.

The attitude that “it’s not illegal and it’s none of your business, so I’m doing it and who are you to stop me” is an ugly one and if I may be so bold the wrong one for a city of 10 million to operate on. People should have a bit more consideration for others. Otherwise, the easiest thing for politicians to do is to garner cheap votes by making those things illegal.

EDIT – LLL’s sort of lost me with that last post though. I’ve no idea what that’s about.

2008-05-16T13:14:29Z

“If you’re all so against Boris then where were you on voting day? Down the pub no less?”

I and 1.02 million (ish) people voted for Ken. Its just that more people (1.6 million) voted for Boris.

I even had the pleasure of Gorgeous George Galloway (in his shades) on his campaign bus outside my polling station. The two ladies manning the polling station said that they could never vote for GG after seeing him in a leotard/acting like a cat on CBB. That idea worked wonders then eh George?

I have enjoyed an occasional drink on the bus/tube and would imagine that I have never come across as threatening. Its a ridiculous headline grabbing policy that will hopefully be forgotten about very shortly.

2008-05-16T13:19:45Z

esotericbadger has been very reasonable.

I fucking hate it when people are reasonable.

2008-05-16T13:27:43Z

Perhaps they should have introduced drinking carriages, rather like the smoking carriages they used to have on trains. That probably would have pleased everyone.

2008-05-16T13:31:18Z

“If you’re all so against Boris then where were you on voting day? Down the pub no less?”

I would stake my reputation on the fact that around 90% of regular visitors to KCL would have voted.

(Fortunately I don’t have a lot to lose if I’m wrong)

2008-05-16T13:31:45Z

they sort of do already. they don’t have any wheels though and the common term is pubs.

2008-05-16T13:31:49Z

I fucking hate it when people are reasonable.

I’m not sure the reasoned arguments are any more convincing than the unreasonable ones.

2008-05-16T13:37:38Z

I’m not saying esotericbadger has changed my mind. He hasn’t. But at least I understood his argument and it was built on more than ‘where were you on voting day????!12321343’. Innit.

2008-05-16T13:42:15Z

It sounds to me like rather than spend money on 440 extra police officers to moniter drinking on public transport, the money should be used for more alcohol abuse treatment facilities. If you can’t take a bloody train ride without a bottle of your precious booze in hand, you’ve got a serious problem.

2008-05-16T13:45:10Z

Hey Carla, I didn’t want to change your mind… I think the ban’s stupid too! Just that people should be nice to each other or ‘niceness’ (as defined by the tyranny of the majority) will be enforced in the search for cheap votes.

2008-05-16T13:47:03Z

They probably won’t be proper police constables. They’ll be those Community Sport Officers instead.

2008-05-16T13:59:31Z

BNM, I think you should have this ...

2008-05-16T14:00:11Z

Who’re you to say I’ve got a problem StevenMichael? Eh? Just where the hell do you get off on saying I’ve got a problem? As Michael Jackson once said – you want to start with the man in the mirror and not worry about what ol’ McDirts is doing with his sweet, sweet lager.

2008-05-16T14:00:20Z

This thread has potential. Anyone that drinks on a tube or a bus is a cunt.

2008-05-16T14:02:28Z

And so are his passengers!

2008-05-16T14:11:36Z

I’ll set em up…

2008-05-16T14:14:31Z

EB is being reasonable but I still think it’s wrong. And frankly just because someone says, quite reasonably that drinking can offend people and is unnecessary does not automatically make it so.

I don’t care about drinking on the tube just the principle. I often drink on trains out of London – very civilized. Costs a fortune for a tin. Offends no one. But I digress.

There hasn’t been any good excuse for imposing this new law. It IS all about being seen to be tough on crime. But here’s the thing – drinking is not a crime. And we already have laws in place to protect against drink related crimes.

I’ve lived in London for 4 years and never have I witnessed anyone being threatening or violent with an open can of booze in their hand – risk of spillage maybe. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened. I just haven’t seen it. I have however seen near punch-ups over loud i-pods or mobile phones being used as fucking stereos. I’ve seen an actual punch up after someone has dropped half a burger into the lap of a man sitting next him. I’ve been spat on. I’ve seen people push old women out of the way to make sure they get a seat. I’ve seen crowds of football/rugby/cricket fans heading out/home thinking they are excellent singers and very sexy to fellow female passengers. I’ve had a dude stick a crucifix in my face and shout at me then make his way down the carriage doing the same to others. I’ve sat on a very wet seat and been forced to pray that it was liquid from an open drink (beer or otherwise) and not something far more sinister. I’ve been robbed. To my knowledge none of these people were drinking special brew or tramp cider. I have been offended by all of these things. So have other people. I don’t expect the Mayor to waste time and resources to protecting me with pretend, unworkable laws.

Spend money on homeless shelters. Drug rehabilitation centres. Police presence to stop real crime on tubes/buses. Something that will help this amazing city.

Gah this is just rambling nonsense. Sorry. My point is it’s a stupid rule. Brought in for the wrong reasons.

2008-05-16T14:15:08Z

If you’re all so against Boris then where were you on voting day? Down the pub no less?

How fucking irritating.

Firstly – I would guess most people on this particular site voted. Have you not worked that out yet? I have a massive problem with the 55% of Londoners who didn’t vote but I’d reckon this is probably not the site to accuse people of not voting.

Secondly – We clever people can both vote and visit the pub on the same day.

Thirdly – A lot of people on here may be anti-Boris. But that is currently neither here nor there. This thread is about ONE LAW. Not about Boris overall. He hadn’t pre-announced he was doing this. So this law and it’s relationship to how people voted are unrelated. Clearly more people in London voted for Boris than Ken. But even if they did, do they now have to agree with this law? Clearly not. So this is what is being debated here. Get that right first then see if you can form a cohesive argument that makes some logical sense. Better still, club together with Lalalucy and see what you can manage between the 2 of you…

2008-05-16T14:19:45Z

I often drink on trains out of London – very civilized. Costs a fortune for a tin. Offends no one. But I digress.

Hmmmmm, this raises questions. If I get the Stanstead Express from Harlow Town to Liverpool Street, as I do every Friday night, at which point do I have to relinquish my Red Stripe?

2008-05-16T14:21:37Z

Where the fuck’s the delete account button? Think I’ve had enough of kudocities and their holier than thou ,snobbish ,smarter than you attitude.

2008-05-16T14:26:47Z

you do realise your commas are in the wrong place, don’t you?

2008-05-16T14:28:27Z

lol @ carla

secretly agrees with lalalucy

2008-05-16T14:29:45Z

I don’t think anyone is trying to be holier or smarter than thou. I think it’s just a matter of differing opinions. Which to my mind is a great thing. You’ve held your own really well – if you hadn’t this thread would have died a long time ago. x

2008-05-16T14:33:10Z

“you do realise your commas are in the wrong place, don’t you?”

Aaaahahahahah sooo funny and witty OMGGGG.

Bye. Wish I could say it’s been pleasent…but no.

2008-05-16T14:33:55Z

C’mon LalaLucy, life would be very boring if everyone agreed. All you have to do is argue back rather than take it all so personally.

2008-05-16T14:42:33Z

Innit. LalaLucy seems to think disagreeing with her means we hate her guts. Is she Gordon Brown? I’ve only seen middle class people have cans on buses and tubes. Can we ban middle class people too?

2008-05-16T14:49:53Z

I haven’t drunk alcohol on a bus since I was about 15, which makes me wonder whether, perhaps, when we’re all drinking in pubs in the evenings, perhaps the tube trains are full of underage kids getting shitfaced on MadDog because they can’t go in pubs. And what are they supposed to do when it’s banned? At least they’re safely underground, out of harm’s way. Soon they’ll be roaming the streets like hordes of crazed vampires (like Lost Boys).

You don’t think this is some kind of terrible plot to ban drinking in public places do you? Like in the park for example…which really would be an abuse of my human rights (only not quite as bad as what UncleGeorge was on about earlier).

For what it’s worth, I too think this law thing is a waste of time, but then I also don’t think 440 police on public transport is that brilliant either. For a start it’s not very many police, and for a second, where are they going to come from? They will have to be already-police who are doing something else, and I’d rather they were on the streets, rather than stuck in traffic/in a tunnel. There are more often scary people roaming the streets than the tubes. I reck.

2008-05-16T14:53:17Z

I’m really amazed this is so controversial. I mean, a beer…on the tube? Can’t wait to see what happens when Boris does something consequential.

“only a de-humanised moron would get rid of the Routemaster”...shiny kudo for the first person to tell me who said that…

2008-05-16T14:54:19Z

As Michael Jackson once said – you want to start with the man in the mirror and not worry about what ol’ McDirts is doing with his sweet, sweet lager.

I don’t debate people who quote Michael Jackson lyrics.

puts McDolt on ignore

2008-05-16T14:57:49Z

Ken.

2008-05-16T15:07:08Z

Basically, isn’t this coming down to a left v right argument? We all know where we stand, and it seems to me that those to the right of the political divide – with the astonishing and welcome exception of part-timer – are doing their utmost to defend Johnston’s law even though they recognise that it’s not one of his best ideas.

Shame about lalalucy flouncing. But these things happen. In ten years time we’ll barely remember her.

I may have a G&T on the way to Willster’s do tonight because I am, at heart, fiercely rebellious.

2008-05-16T15:09:59Z

Come back lalalalalalalucy!

I’m on kudo fire in this thread.

2008-05-16T15:14:31Z

I’m with lucy. Done with this site. It started off good but it’s gotten fecken annoying to even read any of these posts. I know you will all take the piss and state that I am flouncing away but I really couldn’t give two shits. Gets coat

2008-05-16T15:14:48Z

Isn’t this more a libertarian / authoritarian thing? I’m sure DK is dead against this law, and he’s not exactly a lefty.

2008-05-16T15:17:45Z

BNM – I count myself as being slightly to the right of centre and also solidly in opposition to banning things in general and this law in particular. I just wish people could be a bit more considerate so it wasn’t so easy for politicians to get cheap votes by banning things.

By the way, why do you keep calling the blonde “Johnston”?

2008-05-16T15:22:14Z

Blond for a bloke, blonde for a lady.

Isn’t that his name? Have I mispelled it?

2008-05-16T15:23:27Z

Yes I have. Sorry. No T in it.

2008-05-16T15:25:35Z

”. . . esotericbadger has been very reasonable.”

Reasonable but wrong. Drinking is not the same as playing loud music in someone’s face or holding the door open. (To cite his examples.) It just isn’t. Drinking from a bottle of beer hurts no one. Actually, Savannah has more or less said what I want to say. And so I’ll just shut my noise-hole.

2008-05-16T15:28:37Z

Is Boris trying to do a kind of zero tolerance thing with this? I’m just curious, google isn’t working that well (or my internet connection isn’t). I don’t really get what the rationale is. Most people on the tube I know drinking booze out near where I live (at Manor House) tend to be the builders at the end of the day’s work. I don’t find drinking that offensive on transport, maybe others do though.

Major objection to it is the staff on the tubes who will get grief trying to stop it, plus there may be random members of the public who feel it’s “their duty” to police others then it will turn into a row. I think they banned booze on the streets of Kingston-Upon-Hull at one point, but that’s because of the drunken public dis-order offences. The offences still happen though due to people coming out of pubs. Worked well. Obviously.

2008-05-16T15:32:50Z

I’m finding it very difficult to exert any energy to defend someone’s right to have a lager on a bus.

2008-05-16T15:36:54Z

And, StevenMichael, setting up rehab programmes is outwith the mayor’s remit, however, a lot of money could be funnelled into improving the service/stations. Some of which are fucking awful. (I shan’t say that the money should be channeled into lowering fares, as that, I think, is unlikely to happen.) Although, any money directed at the Tube will probably end up in the pockets of lawyers anyway as they try to make sense of the labyrinthine contracts.

sighs

contemplates how practical purchasing a jetpack would be

2008-05-16T15:42:32Z

I don’t think anyone’s ganging up on anyone here people are just expressing opposing views, isn’t that par for the course in a political discussion? I do think what we’re still waiting for is an actual counter argument supporting the new law rather than non-sequiturs about who voted for who and what the previous administration did.

What problem does this law actually solve?

Is it to stop people getting drunk and inevitably on to commit real crime?

If it is then it’s missed it’s target, you need to stop people who are already drunk from getting on the tube, if people are finding it possible to get fighting drunk during their journey then it’s the service delays giving them the necessary amount of time that should be tackled first.

Is it to spare us the unpleasant sight or smell of other people drinking near us?

In that case why just alcohol? There are many more smelly, sticky and spillable food and drink items that should be included to make this intent successful.

Is it an attempt to enforce respect and consideration for ones fellow passengers?

Can niceness be enforced? Should it be enforced? It should be fostered and encouraged but this can’t be done by bringing in legislation, the appearance of respect is not the same as genuine respect. (I think this was near enough the main conclusion from EB’s post).

2008-05-16T15:43:11Z

Oooh a flouncing! Or two, possibly in the same thread. renews prem membership

2008-05-16T15:44:38Z

flounces

2008-05-16T15:45:07Z

Funny. Never saw them in the same room together.

2008-05-16T15:46:20Z

I’m finding it difficult how no-one reads the goddamn posts before saying I’m wrong. Suckmonster, I see why you say “Drinking is not the same as playing loud music in someone’s face or holding the door open”. I get it and I agree. What they do have in common though, is that they do all irritate some people. As lalalucy shows if nothing else, some quite a lot. If something irritates someone and the marginal benefit to you is small, no matter how wrongheaded they are, you probably shouldn’t do it.

2008-05-16T15:48:33Z

Come to think of it, I don’t think “irritating other people” should be against the law.

2008-05-16T15:49:30Z

Is that why you shouldn’t rub up against people on the tube?

2008-05-16T15:49:46Z

Or talk to the bus driver?

2008-05-16T15:53:53Z

Yes, EB, I did read your post and I do grasp that there’ll be someone, somewhere, who’ll undoubtably take offence at even the most innocuous of things. However, I think you need to get some perspective, as you suggested others do, if you think that consuming a beverage is in the same league as playing loud music or delaying the train by holding doors open. They are simply incomparable. And that was the point I was making (albeit clumsily so).

And, sorry, I don’t agree that we should legislate against things that irritate “someone and the marginal benefit to you is small, no matter how wrongheaded they are”. Yes, don’t do it as a matter of personal choice, but don’t fucking legislate against it.

2008-05-16T15:54:33Z

I think this could have been dealt with differently. If people drinking on public transport is considered discourteous, then they should have a similar campaign as to the give up your seat for old/fat/pregnant/disabled people/don’t put your feet on the seats/don’t play loud music/move down the carriage campaigns. OK, you still see people doing all of those things, but at least people then understand what’s courteous and what’s not. Putting your feet on a chair doesn’t hurt anyone, but I don’t do it. I’m really not exercised about the ban, but I understand why people are.

2008-05-16T16:03:21Z

Ironic that this thread is the only thing that’s keeping me from going to the pub right now.

EB, it can’t be that offensive to that many people (apart from those who take offence at things professionally) or there wouldn’t be bars and drinks trolleys on public transport.

2008-05-16T16:05:09Z

Oh for fuck’s sake! Nor do I think we should ban things that irritate people! That’s why I say ‘you probably shouldn’t do them’ not ‘you should be sent to Gitmo for doing it’.

You should just have enough cocking respect not to do them out of choice or they will be banned by vote hungry politicians!

Why is that so difficult for me to get across?

2008-05-16T16:07:26Z

Juvey – yes, precisely. What nice, courteous fellows we are. May I take you roughly over the tube seat?

2008-05-16T16:08:09Z

So what your saying EB, is that you like the Da Vinci Code? Simple really.

2008-05-16T16:11:04Z

It’s great how an argument can continue even when people agree if there’s enough shouting.

I facking love that book, Juvey. 17:32 service to Stratford?

2008-05-16T16:12:13Z

I’ll be one presenting with a bottle of Thunderbird…

2008-05-16T16:14:57Z

Is it too early to go to Willster’s do

2008-05-16T16:16:23Z

But EB, I have never heard of anyone being offended by someone else having a drink. Fundamentalist Muslims, possibly.

I’m trying to understand your stance here, but I can’t reconcile it with the easy availability of alcohol on trains and planes and the position it holds in our society. I don’t think the onus should be on me to approach everyone in a train carriage and ask them if anyone minds if I have a glass of beer. It’s not the same as feet on seats or gum or litter or any of the other social nuisances already mentioned.

Elbow are fucking good, changing the subject briefly.

2008-05-16T16:42:42Z

Don’t go, nice young people. Personally, I thought that you both made good points and held your ground pretty well against the assembled freaks. We need all viewpoints here.

contemplates the freaks

finds matches and turns on gas

edges slowly towards the door

2008-05-16T16:58:32Z

Sorry, EB, I was a little (a lot) being argumentative for the sake of it.

gives EB “special hug”

2008-05-16T17:05:07Z

Am…Am I the only one who completely failed to see one single actual point made by Lala and LittleEmily that didn’t amount to ‘YOU LIKE SPECIAL BREW!!1’ or ‘WHERE WERE YOU ON VOTING DAY!’?

That’s not holding your ground. That’s being silly.

2008-05-16T17:51:38Z

eats scab

2008-05-16T19:03:49Z

Personally, I don’t drink on the tube because I’m never on it for long enough to enjoy a beer. However, I do think this ban is pointless.

Looking at this logically, people boarding a train will be already sozzled, slightly squiffy or stone cold sober. Either way, the amount of alcohol they will physically be able to consume during the average time spent on the tube – excluding the joys of an all-nighter on the circle line or projectile vomiting – will not make a blind bit of difference to their behaviour. And if they appear intimidating to somebody else, or genuinely are anti-social thugs, I strongly suspect the presence or absence of a can of lager as an accessory will not change that.

After all, Boris with or Boris without a can of Stella is still the same blond insert your own adjective/s here bloke.

2008-05-16T19:07:47Z

Throughout all this harranguing, flouncing, swearing and pseudo political debate, I am surprised by two things. The first is that nobody mentioned one of my major bete noires which is people dumping their copy of Metro, London Lite or the other one, behind them on the tube when they’ve finished reading them. Why can’t the cunts take them and put them in a bin somewhere? I fucking hate litter and people who cause it.

Also, apparently BJ was voted as say the funniest political quote for the last 50 years. It is “I have as much chance of becoming Prime Minister as of being decapitated by a frisbee or of finding Elvis.”

What brainless fuckwits voted for that? Funniest for fifty years??? 4 Fox Ache…

2008-05-17T11:58:35Z

Johnson seems to be labouring under the misapprehension that Elvis is missing rather than dead. Besides, that quote isn’t funny in the slightest. Who did the voting, his mum?

2008-05-17T12:08:54Z

“Now is not the time for sound-bites. I can feel the hand of history on my shoulder” - Tony Blair

Personally, that’s my favourite politico’s quote from the last 50 years. Hilarious.

Blimey. What a thread. And I missed it. Tits.

watches cloud of feathers slowly settle down over thread

“I voted for him. Stick that in yer pipe. laughs an evil tory laugh

I know this will probably make you all dislike me even more but I’m beyond caring.”

LLL, may I offer a theory that you’re not actually beyond caring, because you’re revelling in the role of playing the martyr? Which is why you’ve (perhaps accidentally-on-purpose) substituted ‘robust debate’ for ‘personal dislike’, in a kind of “woe is me, no-one loves me, I don’t care”, way. Joan D’Arc, like, ‘n’all that. Because you lingered about for a while after threatening to flounce (pretty much in the same way as Little Emily). Personally, I find threads where everyone says the same thing a bit boring, and so the presence of people who are likely to posit divergent views – such as part-timer, DK, EB, and the other guy (you know, the one with the hat) – is most welcome. If you and Little Emily had it in you to post coherent arguments and stand by them, so would yours.

As it happens LLL, I too feel uncomfortable when I’m going home late at night after work and have to share the tube with dozens of drunk people, worried that if I accidentally make eye contact with one that they might start on me. Then again, it may just be me being grumpy that I’m not pissed like them. However, I fail to see how the ban is going to make one iota of difference. Most pissed people on the Tube have topped-up either in the pub or at home (in fact, there’s evidence to show that a growing proportion of alcohol is drunk at home before going out). I think what would be much more helpful is to try and make pisspoor quality, dirt-cheap booze from off-licences and supermarkets, a thing of the past.

That and repeal the 24-hour licensing laws.

2008-05-18T09:06:06Z

Am…Am I the only one who completely failed to see one single actual point made by Lala and LittleEmily that didn’t amount to ‘YOU LIKE SPECIAL BREW!!1’ or ‘WHERE WERE YOU ON VOTING DAY!’?

No.

That’s not holding your ground. That’s being silly.

Yes.

2008-05-18T09:46:28Z

On the subject of booze, I’m slightly disappointed by the level of drunken posts on this site, i.e. there is not nearly enough. Please, can you all try to do better.

At least CarmenM is doing her bit for post-coital posts. “Out of breath”, indeed.

raises eyebrow

2008-05-18T09:54:45Z

Awww – c’mon SM – It’s only 10:50. Chrissake. I’ve only had 4 Stella so far. It takes me a lot longer than that to get drunk. And it takes quite a few before I beat my wife which is why there is no post-coital stuff either.

2008-05-18T10:16:08Z

Yeah, what kind of pussy only beats their wife when drunk.

2008-05-18T21:30:46Z

2008-05-18T22:52:25Z

Babb – you’ve aged a bit!

2008-05-19T04:35:50Z

And also conveniently managed to make sure her feet are out of frame.

2008-05-19T06:49:53Z

When having one’s photo taken, one has to maximise one’s assets.

lovingly strokes beer belly

2008-05-19T06:56:18Z

peers is that a damp area around the crotch?

2008-05-19T07:44:28Z

There is now…

2008-05-19T08:15:23Z

is that a damp area around the crotch

Yeah, and what of it?

And where’s my dinner, bitch?

2008-05-19T13:56:49Z

Er, just to get back to the subject of drinking on tubes…I saw my aged parentals at the weekend and was talking to my dad about the drinking ban, and the party on the 31st May. Anyway, he said ‘well of course we had parties on the Circle Line back when I was young, but of course that was when THERE WERE BARS IN THE TUBE STATIONS’. He didn’t shout that bit, that’s just me adding to the excitement. But on further probing, it turns out that at (he thought) 6 stations on the Circle line, there were bars on the platforms. This was in the late 40s/early 50s I think. He is well old so can’t really remember when things were.

2008-05-19T15:32:42Z

PrincessBride – can that be verified? If it is the case, I will wholeheartedly change my position and suggest that cocktail hour is not only to be tolerated but to be positively encouraged on London Transport. I’m off for some googling…

2008-05-19T16:00:40Z

There used to be a small bar at Sloane Square station, at the bottom of the escalator on the westbound side. I would occasionally drink there if the tubes were fucked, which they were just as often then as they are now.

By ‘then’ I mean in the early to mid 80s.

2008-05-19T16:22:44Z

I googled it – apparently there was one in Sloane Square called the Hole in the Wall that is now Treats, and also one at Liverpool Street, both until the 70s/80s. But I believed my dad anyway – he spent most of his youth drinking in London, and he wouldn’t have missed a trick like a bar on a tube platform.

2008-05-19T16:33:41Z

I’ve also heard of bars on the underground, I was told there used to be one at Gloucester road but I can’t find any confirmation on the internet.

I have seen bars on the Madrid Metro, struck me as very civilised having a quick loosener on the way home while changing trains.

2008-05-19T16:40:06Z

Why do people suddenly metamorphose into Daily Mail readers when talking about the tube? Oh, delays, oh signal failures, oh people taken ill and so on? And then blaming “Nu Labor” as they are wont to refer to them?

Am I the only one who thinks that the tube has actually improved? Even if you ignore my previous rant on another thread about how fares have been made far more logical etc since KL was in charge, I still think the tube is better than it has been for a long time. And I’ve been travelling on it since 1975. Yes – 1975…

We used to have free meths supplied to us at stations in those days. It went great with the free roll-ups.

2008-05-19T16:45:14Z

I’m so pleased Google bears out what I said on the previous page.

checks to see if he imagined posting answer about Sloane Square bar

2008-05-19T18:48:26Z

Am I the only one who thinks that the tube has actually improved?

I would have agreed with you, until about a page ago, when I learned that they took the bars away.

2008-05-20T08:17:30Z

Am I the only one who thinks that the tube has actually improved?

Uh, it’s all relative, though, isn’t it? It was pretty fucking awful to begin with.

Does anyone know why they don’t put more trains on at rush hour, BTW? (I heard someone suggest this, once.) Is this logistically impossible?